Wednesday, December 16, 2009

Are there alternatives to complex "fixes" for AGW?

Who understands Cap-and-trade? Are you ready to buy and sell carbon credits, futures in carbon credits? Will these "fixes" to AGW be readily accepted by the Western democracies? These are all questions that need answers before governments spend billions, sacrifice jobs and generally dampen an economic recovery that is currently still on life support. Are there less costly fixes? There are, here is a thought:


  1. I've heard the solutions of cloud seeding over the ocean, simulating a volcanic eruption and even building mirrors in space to reflect sunlight. Great solutions, but temporary. It's equivalent to lowering the temperature in your bedroom while you continue to add blankets.

    I find it ironic that you deny the effects of CO2 in the atmosphere but believe that small amounts of SO2 can reflect enough sunlight to cool the earth.

    Dubner is wrong about CO2. It IS a poison. So is oxygen and water. Everything is poisonous. What matters is the exposure over time. Scientists cannot say what level of CO2 is too much but Steven Chu, Obama's science adviser, is "very pessimistic" that CO2 levels will reach 500ppm before we bring CO2 emissions under control. This is roughly twice the amount measured for 2.1 million years (Discover Magazine, Jan/Feb 2010, Page 72).

    Scientists say that CO2 is the major cause of GW and that a temperature rise of only 2 degrees C will be catastrophic. They claim this not with certainty but a high probability. Dubner's proposals will, hopefully, save us from calamity but while the earth is cooling, we need to stop loading on blankets. It doesn't matter if spending money on cooling the planet is cheaper than reducing CO2 - we need to do both.

  2. "I find it ironic that you deny the effects of CO2 in the atmosphere but believe that small amounts of SO2 can reflect enough sunlight to cool the earth."

    I know SO2 works, I'm not so sure about CO2.

    "Dubner is wrong about CO2. It IS a poison. So is oxygen and water. Everything is poisonous."

    Now thats just being argumentative and silly. I can do the Monty Python thing and say "no its not".

  3. Here is an interesting comment on what people think about this issue and how they may behave:

  4. Not sure why you posted this link. I support market solutions however, I don't support solutions where the cheaper option is the one which causes the highest amount of pollution. The free market will do extremely well at providing clean energy once we prevent people from using the highly polluting energy from coal and oil. From the point of view of a libertarian and free market supporter, slavery is a wonderful way to produce things at the lowest cost.... but we don't allow it anymore.

    Here's a good side-by-side comparison of the AGW skeptics (I prefer the word 'denialists') and the scientific consensus:

  5. I forgot to defend my "CO2 is poisonous" claim.

    You missed the point. Everything is poisonous if the exposure is high enough. Atmospheric CO2 levels are, according to those most educated (former science students!), above the safe level and is now poisonous to our environment and raising temperatures.

    Small amounts of CO2 act on global temperatures in the same way that small amounts of SO2 acts to reflect light. Since you are "not sure" about CO2 effects, get educated on it.

  6. Just found this cartoon, via Pharyngula, that illustrates my point about why we need to move to clean energy and why your claims of 'freedom' and 'money' are unfounded:

  7. Your cartoon, very funny but pardon me if I think differently. The so-called better world is not the world I want, not in the way its being "discussed" at Copenhagen or in the media.
    This entire discussion, the "green" hysteria that has swept over the mainstream media is very unsettling to me. I've lived through several of these delusional periods over the years from the "Red-scare", the cold-war, through ice-age fears, population crises, terrorist paranoia, name it on and on. This feels and smells the same to me and as usual I don't feel the same urgency. Like all the previous delusions there are well organized pressure groups and their spokesmen, governments and corporations. A closed triangle - nothing to do with ordinary folk who will be "milked" of their wealth and freedom if any of this bullshit is realized.
    I see Obama looking Lincolnesque all over the web this morning - saviour of the world- what a load of crap.

  8. Well, this time the hysteria may be worth it. The sky just may be falling...

    The difference today is the science. Remember, it's still relatively new but the science has been scrutinized by the best and brightest. This time the concern is warranted.

    And, as the cartoon suggests, if we are completely wrong, we still get all the benefits on the screen.

    The 'hysteria' could reverse our economic downturn AND allow greater freedom - the perfect Libertarian cause.


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.